How western anti-man forces (here the gays) forcibly impose the 'homosexual' identity and concept on man's desire for men

... and even those who reject the term 'gay' fail to see, that the concept of 'homosexuality' is as flawed as the concept of 'gay.'



SciForums.com > Science > Human Science > Homosexuality vs. the ''Non-Gay Man''
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Post ReplyCreate New Threadgluon01-20-09, 06:50 PMDr. Joseph Nicolosi should have his PhD removed from him for sheer professional foolery. In a recent thread, our resident mod Bells gave a link to this mans work on homosexuality, and i am stunned more by his conclusions on how he defined homosexuality, to rather his overall conclusions of his theory, whilst that is amazingly erreneous, even for a doctor of philosophy.
Wiki states,
''The introduction summarized the main themes of the book. It defined non-gay homosexual men as men who, while sexually attracted to other men, reject a gay identity.''
Ok, so what he seems to be saying, is that homosexuality in men is fine, but they are only homosexual if they practice it? Isn't that just another way of repressing ones feelings, whilst simultaneously lying about their true identities? I hardly see how (if a man) finds other men attractive but don't practice it how it doesn't make him a homosexual, or even a bisexual.
This is ludricrous, and if that indeed is what is book starts off with, i would have been putting it in the bin.
Further, as akin to the thread Bell posted this link in, he conlcudes homosexuality is,
''Nicolosi insisted that homosexuality is a developmental problem that often results from problems between a boy and his father, or between a boy and his male peers, leading to a failure to internalize male gender-identity. This disenfranchisement from males produces eroticization of maleness.''
But wait, the best is yet to come. In reading what Nocolosi believed, he finally contradicts his own way of teaching,
''Nicolosi complained that people who do not value homosexuality as much as heterosexuality were deemed homophobic, and wrote that it was legitimate to place higher worth on heterosexuality within the context of one's own value system.''
Wait a minute. Dr. Nicolosi, did you not define,
''non-gay homosexual men as men who, while sexually attracted to other men, reject a gay identity.''
Well, it seems that you are telling men all over the world not to value their homosexual side if you are wanting them to reject their homosexual identity as being non-gay. For a doctor who believes to be non-gay could be a male who has homosexual feelings but does not practice them, is giving out the wrong impression in his book, as one can be left slightly lied to if he certainly believes its all down to placing an inequality between how we personally associate homosexuality and heterosexuality.
Then, if one follows wiki, the doctor certainly believes it can be treated, as though as it were a mental illness:
''Nicolosi's second book was Healing Homosexuality: Case Stories of Reparative Therapy, published in 1993. Healing Homosexuality was written with the assistance of Lucy Freeman, who was mentioned on the title page but not listed on the cover as a co-author. Nicolosi wrote in the introduction that, "...in order to preserve the privacy of the men, each case history has been woven as a composite of several clients with similar issues. No case story fits any particular client in every detail. Any resemblance to any one particular individual is purely coincidental." Nicolosi explained that these men were representative of those he had encountered in the twelve years in which he treated over two hundred homosexual clients.
Semi-fictionalized descriptions of the treatment of eight homosexual men (Albert, Tom, Father John, Charlie, Dan, Steve, Edward, and Roger) were given in the first through to the eighth chapters. The ninth chapter was Men Together - How Group Therapy Heals, an account of group therapy. In it Nicolosi wrote that group therapy could be a source of healthy male relationships. The tenth chapter was How Reparative Therapy Works, a general description of reparative therapy. In it Nicolosi wrote, "The basic premise of reparative therapy is that the majority of homosexual clients suffer from a syndrome of male gender-identity deficit. It is this internal sense of incompleteness of one's own maleness that is the essential foundation for homoerotic attraction. The causal rule of reparative therapy is: "gender identity determines sexual orientation." We eroticize what we are not identified with. The focus of treatment therefore is the full development of the client's masculine gender identity." [4]''
Ok... hold on. Men can be cured of homosexual thoughts... is this the same as repressing it all together, like we found in that gem at the start?
Too many men nowadays are quick to repress homosexuality. In fact, most men will go through their life saying to other people they are not gay or bisexual, whilst retaining a bit of dignity, but also unaware that they are ultimately lying to themselves in the process.
These classes he holds are certainly 'A breading ground for such mentality in men', where other men justify these ways of thinking. So in a group, it is easier to express they have homosexual tendancies, but equally call each other straight men if they do not practice gay lifestyles.
Is this all not pure stuipidity?
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JDawg01-20-09, 09:10 PMIt is stupidity. He seems to segregate "gay" and "homosexual" as two different things, and actually uses "non-gay" to define men who pretend they aren't homosexual. That's simply not true. If you're homosexual, you're gay. That's the vernacular. If he wanted to say "non-practicing", that might be different.
Also, the idea that homosexuality can be healed is ridiculous. It's not a disease, it's a sexuality.
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Pronghorn01-23-09, 10:00 PMA bit off topic on the Nicolosi subject:
Whilst I do not think that "homosexuality" is a disease (oh, no), or that same-sex desire stems from gender identity disorder (pffffft), one must remember that "gay" is a culture-specific label (identity, rather) that is not universal. There is a reason why some people cannot identify with it - therefore reject to use it on themselves. Remember that it is YOUR vernacular. The rest of the world does not always need to follow suit with what westerners do.
Why even in the west, there are those who prefer "G0y" over "Gay"! I think we ought to respect their wishes to segregate themselves from an identity that is not their own.
P.S. I capitalise "Gay" (sexual identity) because I still use gay (adjective) to mean happy. Ehehehe...
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Pronghorn01-23-09, 10:25 PMAnd I think the reason why some practitioners of "man-man loving" reject the term Gay is because it's associated with so many other unrelated things.
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Fraggle Rocker01-24-09, 12:02 AMIt defined non-gay homosexual men as men who, while sexually attracted to other men, reject a gay identity.I'm not at all sure these men are reacting to connotations of the word "gay." I think that for one reason or another they're simply denying or suppressing their sexuality. Clearly for some or many of them this will have a lot to do with pressure, discrimination or ostracism by family, friends and society. But it also may be the result of things they learned about how to live back before they were sexually mature enough to know how they felt about sexuality--self-repression.
I knew a guy who grew up in an utterly flaming Catholic community and he just went through his life doing all the things he had learned were right, including marriage and fatherhood. It wasn't until he was much older, divorced, living in a more liberal community, and acquainted with some gay men, that he began to realize what was inside him and began being and living sexually gay. This really is not only possible but sadly common.
Other men go through that same revelation but for various reasons do not want to give up the life they've already made. That's not hard to understand either, especially if it includes a loving family, even if the other parent is not of the gender they'd choose if they had it to do over again. Love can certainly transcend absolutely anything.
Lots of people--although anecdotally more women than men--have sex they don't enjoy with their spouses. It's just something they treat as a duty. Plenty of other people have sex rarely or even never. It's just not that difficult to imagine scenarios in which a man who is sexuality attracted to men would not identify himself as gay.
And then there are the men like that senator and that governor, who have the established heterosexual life with wives and children, but sneak out to have gay sex for pleasure. They had plenty of reasons to not identify themselves as gay, for a major period in their life. You don't have to be a prominent politician to make the decision that you'd just rather not "come out" right now if ever.''Nicolosi insisted that homosexuality is a developmental problem that often results from problems between a boy and his father, or between a boy and his male peers, leading to a failure to internalize male gender-identity. This disenfranchisement from males produces eroticization of maleness.''The most recent reports I've read suggested that homosexuality in men was neither hereditary nor environmental, but rather the result of conditions in utero. We'll have to wait for more research on that one.Ok... hold on. Men can be cured of homosexual thoughts... is this the same as repressing it all together, like we found in that gem at the start?So it would seem.Is this all not pure stupidity?I don't know about that, but it's not very good science.
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Heterosexualising and selling away Indian warrior traditions and values

Here is a nauseating incidence of how the forces of heterosexualization as part of India's westernization, are going about their business. An ancient masculine, warrior tradition, that guarded strictly against even seeing women, leave alone touching them or having them enter their spaces, is now being converted into an obscene heterosexual practise, together with the heterosexualization of all its rules and customs.

Of course, there is a lot of money to be made into this process as well. The western forces of heterosexualization are more than happy to destroy the indigenous men's spaces, just as they destroyed those in their own cultures.

So, once Kalaripayattu and everything that it entails is sufficiently heterosexualized, what option will men have but to submit to indignity in front of women, if they want to avail of Kalaripayattu -- and often they can't even avoid that, when faced with peer pressure and a personal psychological pressure to develop their heterosexual desire to the maximum in order to fit into the westernized, heterosexualized concept of manhood.

A woman stripping a guy naked and performing foot massage on him? That is not only feminizing an essentially masculine tradition, that is leaving men no dignity, no personal spaces. Of course, when the forces of westernization redefine manhood as 'heterosexual desire' men cannot complain about this without losing their manhood as well.

Comeon!! Kalaripayattu is a manly tradition. Not an affair for the girly male. Please leave it alone ... Let these whores who want another excuse to usurp men's spaces and to sexually humiliate men, do it in their own country, not ours.

Here's a link to this obnoxious site:

http://www.dhanurvedam.com/gallery.html

Note that on the site, men don't massage naked women. That is a typical western attitude. While women's dignity, privacy and spaces are protected from men, there's no one to protect men's spaces or dignity or privacy. Women ought to be protected from men's sexuality, but men don't need protection from women's sexuality. That is exactly the opposite of how things naturally stand.

In heterosexualized spaces even friendship can only be between boy-girl or two girls; no male-male even as simple friends!!

An application for sending scraps with pictures on orkut, has different themes for different scraps. It's divided into categories like 'celebrations', 'icebreakers', 'love', 'friendship', 'tease', etc.

It would be too much to expect a any society, leave alone a heterosexualized society to show figures of two males in the love section. But, yes, you'd expect to see at least some representation of two girls or two boys together in the friendship section. However, heterosexualized spaces have socially engineered such fear of any kind of intimacy between men, even plain friendship, because it portrays all of them as 'homosexual' (and thus unmanly and third gender).

Therefore, eventhough an Indian has desgined it, and it is clear that it is a man who designed this, because women don't have anything to worry about by showing two men as friends -- the friendship section contains illustrations of two girls together as friends. One of them even shows two girls as kissing (friends?) and a heart sign. There are other illustrations where a girl and a boy are shown together to represent friendship. BUT, there are no images of two men as friends... since the creator would be too scared to be labelled 'gay' if he does that. So, in heterosexualized societies, at least at formal level, any social bonding can only be between two opposite sexes -- be it love or even simple friendship. And unless the designer has something to hide he will not be so scared... but then don't all 'straight' men have something to hide as far as their desires for another man are concerned?

And the Western society still thinks of itself as superior, manly and an open society! How hypocrite can you get. Everything about Western society is a sham... a pretense... double standards... unnatural... artificial... including its heterosexuality and homosexuality.

Believe it or not, this is just pure friendship... nothing wrong in it for heterosexualized societies if straight women kiss...

And believe it or not, this is also an illustration of friendship... but no two males as friends... that's unacceptable for men who are labelled 'heterosexual'.

 And this is the icebreaking section... again between a man and a woman... I mean why would a 'straight' man want to break ice with a man...??? uggggghhhh!!!

.....

Forcing man and woman to hug on TV...

This evening there was this AXN like TV programme on some Indian Channel in it, where Akhsay Khanna was asking an assortment of men and women to do daredevil acts on camera.

A man had just completed a feat and he was all wet. His team mate, some girl congratulated him verbally. But Akshay asked him to hug the guy. I mean this is the limit of being a copy cat -- trying to do everything the way they do it in the west, complete with showing heterosexual intimacy, even if it is anti-Indian in its essence.

Neither the girl want to do it nor the guy. They both didn't know what to do... the guy tried to save the situation by saying... oh, its too cold, she'll get wet, but Akshay insisted. For the Forces of Heterosexualisation, he was being the hero. He was doing the right thing, as per their narrow thinking.

So, the girl finally had to go and give the man such a hesitating and unwanted hug. When will they come to their senses?

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